{"id":4682,"date":"2014-04-21T16:12:31","date_gmt":"2014-04-21T21:12:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/writing.wisc.edu\/blog\/?p=4682"},"modified":"2025-04-13T23:40:28","modified_gmt":"2025-04-14T04:40:28","slug":"how-to-talk-to-a-student-who-isnt-there","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dept.writing.wisc.edu\/blog\/how-to-talk-to-a-student-who-isnt-there\/","title":{"rendered":"How to talk with a student who isn\u2019t there"},"content":{"rendered":"
<\/div>

Ineffective and effective practices for commenting on student writing<\/strong><\/h2>\n

By Mike A. Shapiro<\/strong>, @mikeshapiro<\/a>, TA and Co-Coordinator in the Writing Center at the University of Wisconsin\u2013Madison.<\/em><\/p>\n

\"Mike<\/a>
The author, pontificating about something. Photo by Amy Patterson<\/a>.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Those of us lucky enough to teach in a classroom or tutor in a writing center recognize how much learning can happen in a 30-minute conversation. Spending those same 30 minutes writing comments on a student\u2019s paper can feel like we\u2019re teaching only a fraction of what we\u2019re capable of, and yet writing these comments is an enormous part of our work! A professor in a writing-intensive discipline may spend 300 workdays of her career grading papers, and a writing center may spend a large percentage of its tutoring time on written feedback.<\/p>\n

But what do students learn from all these hours dedicated to commenting? Troublingly, the answer is that we don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

C. H. Knoblauch and Lil Brannon have, for thirty years, followed research on teacher feedback. They believe commenters fall for the logical fallacy that what teachers teach is the same thing as what students learn, and they think we count as student learning things that are really just error correction. They conclude from the studies they reviewed that comments on student writing have \u201climited meaningful impact on draft-to-draft revision and virtually no demonstrable effect on performance from assignment to assignment\u201d (2006, p. 14).<\/p>\n

As Anson (2012) puts it, \u201cWhat would it mean to us, psychologically and pedagogically, if we were to find only a modest educational return on the colossal investment of time and energy we put into responding to student writing?\u201d (p. 188).<\/p>\n

Yet, as I look over the research on commenting on student writing, I wonder whether this failure lies not with the comments themselves but with the metaphor through which we approach them.<\/p>\n

Great teachers and tutors build talk into their work with students, inviting questions and interpreting student expressions to gauge whether more explanation is necessary. When we carry this interactive pedagogy onto the page we end up talking to a student who isn\u2019t there.<\/p>\n

But comments on student writing are not conversation. They are as much their own genre as a lab report or business memo, with reasonably well-researched guidelines for success. Rather than treat comments as a failed form of talk, why not ask what work we can do in our written feedback that we can\u2019t do in any other way?<\/p>\n

Is there such a thing as too many comments?<\/h2>\n

Problem<\/h3>\n

Students report that they like receiving lots of comments on their writing (Still & Koerber, 2010).<\/p>\n

However, a paper covered with comments may demoralize students (Weaver, 2006), focus \u00a0attention on mechanical tweaks rather than thoughtful revisions (Straub, 1997; Ashwell, 2000), and treat students as editors rather than learners (Sommers, 2006).<\/p>\n

Strategy<\/h3>\n
\"A<\/a>
By Jinx<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

To motivate learning and to help students recognize the crucial problems in their drafts, limit your comments to the small number of high-stakes problems which, if addressed, will elevate the student (and the draft) to the next level of competence.<\/p>\n

These issues are not always going to be writing a stronger main claim or bringing better analysis to bear on the evidence, but beware shying away from difficult revision topics in favor of revisions that are easier to write about, like sentence or paragraph structure.<\/p>\n

Because students are likely to revise only those problems raised in comments (Ferris, 1997; Ashwell, 2000), your selection of important lessons is one of the most important interventions you make.<\/p>\n

What do effective comments look like?<\/h2>\n

Problem<\/h3>\n

Students report that they want detailed comments (Straub, 1997; Chanock, 2000; Weaver, 2006), but instructors and tutors who think they write detailed comments are often mistaken (Carless, 2006).<\/p>\n

Strategy<\/h3>\n

Researchers identify two elements of comments that lead to draft improvement and student achievement (Parr and Timperley, 2010):<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. \n

    An explanation of the problem in language that refers to the goals of the assignment.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n

  2. \n

    A process the student can follow to address that problem.<\/p>\n<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    Here\u2019s an example comment, framing the problem in terms of the reader\u2019s needs and suggesting a process for fixing it:<\/p>\n

    \n

    You quote this source without relating its idea to your topic in this paragraph, and so your reader has to guess how this idea about smoking relates to your main point about health care. To help your reader understand your logic, revise the sentence before the quotation to introduce it as an example, and revise the two sentences after the quotation to explain how this example illustrates your main point.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

    When do comments fail?<\/h2>\n

    Problem<\/h3>\n
    \"A<\/a>
    By Lucas<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

    Students fail to understand comments in ways commenters fail to imagine (Carless, 2006; Weaver, 2006; Still, 2010).<\/p>\n

    Bad handwriting, unexplained underlining, and arcane symbols confuse students, but the major problem is that commenters imagine their words mean the same thing to the student that they do to the commenter. In this regard, and in many others, bad commenting is exactly like bad writing.<\/p>\n

    Academic jargon that comes easily to instructors and tutors can be impossible for students to decode. For example, one study looked at students in a history course who received the comment that their essays required \u201cmore analysis\u201d; of these students, only 51% could explain what analysis meant (Chanock, 2000).<\/p>\n

    While some instructors blame inattentive students for failing to master academic jargon (Bailey & Garner, 2010), the reality is that students lack the expertise they need to translate academic codes into revision practice. Comments that students can\u2019t grasp quickly demotivate revision and lead students to feel they can\u2019t improve as writers (Carless, 2006; Weaver, 2006).<\/p>\n

    Strategy<\/h3>\n

    Take great care to phrase your explanations and interventions in as little academic jargon as possible. For example:<\/p>\n